
Protest, he said at one point, āis one form of discovering when density is too much,ā and that certainly points to Brooklyn. (He spoke at the Yale Club, sponsored by the Manhattan Institute.)
But he began with modernism, the 20th-century stripping of ornament and history in the interest of efficiency and currency, failing to match the ācomplex urbanityā of the past, that failed. In the United States and Britain, it was applied to public housing, and was denounced. The 1972 destruction of the Pruitt-Igoe housing complex in St. Louis marked the āend of modernism as a social cause.ā
Architects, Glazer said, āare really more interested in form than social reform, though they often speak about it.ā (Remember Atlantic Yards architect's Frank Gehry calling himself ādo-gooder, liberal.ā)
Modernist architects, Glazer said, have created āsome sensational buildingsā--and his book mentions Gehry and Zaha Hadid and Rem Koolhaas and Santiago Calatrava--ābut we have no proposal from modernism for the improvement of urban life.ā Indeed, he writes, that, while we can tolerate the personal visions of painters or sculptors, āWe cannot be as indifferent to the individual vision of the architect.ā
Those forms often donāt relate to function, Glazer writes; interestingly, Gehryās Atlantic Yards plan has involved to include, at least on the base of some buildings, ">brick and stone to reflect the nearby neighborhood. Still, there would be a lot of glass, and Glazer warns that materials in modernist buildingsāhe calls them āWorldās Fair buildingsā meant to impress brieflyāoften are costly to maintain and restore.
Glazer cited the new interest in Robert Moses and Jane Jacobs as well as the current building boom. āAs we look at this explosion,ā he asked, āIs there any place for a larger scheme or vision?ā
(In I.D. Magazine, Thomas de Monchaux writes of Atlantic Yards: Gehry's presence adds a thin veneer of the visionary to what is essentially a private urban renewal project of the kind discredited since the 1960s.)
Controlling density
Urban planning, Glazer observed, has traditionally concerned the control of density. He said that London and Paris, āour great competitorsā used instruments of planning to restrict density in the center and build more on the outskirts. That, he allowed, has had tradeoffs: high-cost office space in the center and, in the case of Paris, soulless and dangerous (and, though he didnāt say it, modernist) suburbs.
āBut they use planning in service of the amenity they believe should be part of urban life,ā he said. āThey show more respect for the past than we do. Would either of them have allowed the destruction of Penn Station?ā (That 1964 demolition helped catalyze the historic preservation movement in New York City, leading to the 1965 establishment of the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission.)
Glazer writes: One also notes that great cities like Paris and London are not built to great heights, that their business districts spread over a larger section of the city, and yet liveliness and diversity and the pleasures of the street manage to exist, even when the street line is built up to five or seven stories, rather than a dozen or more.
An āemblematicā statement, Glazer suggested, came from a meeting he described when a group of New Yorkers, some decades ago, visited Paris and were told, āBuild the city on the city.ā In other words, Glazer expanded, āDo not erase the city it order to build it. It can also be built on its past. "
āDo we need the unique and ever more intense crowding of the center?ā he said. āDo we need to have this density?ā
(Not everyone agrees. Libertarian-ish Harvard economist Edward Glaeser writes in the New York Sun: If there is one area where Mr. Glazer and I disagree it is his view that "scale is a problem." The resurgence of New York, London, and Chicago, and the great, growing cities of Asia remind us of how valuable scale can be. Scale is not for everyone, but great towers enable vast numbers of people to reap the economic and social benefits from physical proximity. New York's skyscrapers are the infrastructure that enables the city's flow of ideas. And for those buildings, modernism is an efficient, attractive style. Millions of New Yorkers happily work and live in modernist towers. New commercial buildings in the city remain mostly modernist. Why not? People are willing to pay high prices for them.)
Glazer in the book offers his take:
I think we have gone too far. We see costs to the quality of life when the new office buildings engross midblock sites, wiping out older, smaller buildings, which provide space for modest business establishments.
Atlantic Yards
In his speech, Glazer then he brought up āthe conflict over Atlantic Yards,ā an area that he described as having four- and five-story buildings, now slated for āthis enormous concentration. One asks: Is this necessary?ā

(The photo is taken from the Sixth Avenue bridge, over the railyards, approaching Atlantic Avenue and looking northeast.)
Managing conflict
āCan we develop a way of thinking that opposes the powerful logic of the market with other ways of thinking that gives a larger place to the pleasures of urban life?ā Glazer asked.
These days, he lamented, the only way is to fight things out regarding each project. Atlantic Yards opponents, he suggested, have been portrayed as having only sentimentality or self-interest at heart. (There are elements of truth to those charges, but Atlantic Yards opponents and critics also have called for much more, including better urban design, a fairer planning process, a thorough analysis of the project's economics, and a rejection of the use of eminent domain for what is seen as private gain.)
Much more is involved, Glazer insisted: āIt is time to think of the notion of a larger view of the city.ā

AY an anomaly?
When it came time for questions, Joseph Rose, former chairman of the City Planning Commission, commented, āI actually think Atlantic Yards is an anomaly.ā While Rose implicitly accepted Glazerās take on Atlantic Yards, he suggested that there have been improvements sensitive to the city, citing the restoration of Bryant Park, the revival of the theater district, and the effort to create waterfront access on the West Side.
Glazer didnāt disagree with Roseās examples, but maintained, āIn great, historic cities, a greater degree of control, in preservation of the traditional fabric, seems not to have hurt them.ā
He was asked how housing developments like Co-op City, and Starrett City, once derided as soulless, could be beautified to maintain affordable access yet improve the sense of amenity. Glazer didnāt have a specific solution, but he did have a warning: donāt let the private purchasers of such complexes fill in open space with new buildings. āIād urge city authorities not to allow them more density.ā
āWhat is a level of density that provides a good life?ā Glazer mused. Thereās no answer, though he writes in the book:
Huge buildings we admire were built in the past too. So there are other things besides scale that are problematic. One of them is that the features which used to structure scale for the eye, manage scaleāsystems of ornament and decorationāare no longer available to contemporary architects.
Also, he writes about the increasing height, at least in the past (see Atlantic Terminal 4B) of public housing:
Yet much in amenity that smaller-scaled structures provided was sacrificed: easier access to the street and playground; fewer families on each entry, who , knowing each other could more easily police public access, more varied play spaces.ā
It depends
Former Parks Commissioner Henry Stern, of New York Civic, suggested that some apparently dense buildings, like new apartments on Columbus Circle, tax the infrastructure less because the residents may be wealthy people establishing second homes, without children using the school system.
Also, Stern pointed to the plethora of apartment buildings 15 to 20 stories on Park Avenue and suggested that such density ādoesnāt seem to cause problems.ā Is the demonstrated problem with density a product of social conditions more than architecture?
Glazer allowed that Sternās first point was a good one; he hadnāt considered the point. And he didnāt quite address the Park Avenue issue.
āIām trying to justify and defend the notion: we like it the way it is,ā Glazer said. That of course is hard to defend in a time of growth, as New York Cityāat least according to the mayor but not analyst Tom Angotti in Gotham Gazetteāplans for another million residents by 2030.
āWe have not done very well at developing the argument for amenity,ā he said. Indeed, his book points to a distinction: When we speak of a cityās āquality of life,ā we think of the elements that make a city gracious, pleasant, livable: the residential squares of London, the boulevards of Paris, the woods and lakes of Berlin. They are often featured on travel posters, but for New York, in contrast, we have skyscrapersāgrand, but hardly contributors to quality of life.
Regulation or the market?
A questioner pointed out that even subsidizing outer borough business hubs has not necessarily drawn business from the center city. Glazer, talking to a conservative/libertarian group, suggested that the solution was āless subsidy and more restriction.ā
That seemed counter to one passage in the book, where he writes:
Yes, New Yorkās development should be unshackled, for it is far too bound by rule and regulation. But the unshackling should be combined with a vision of a better way of life.
A real estate developer talked about how New York had lost distinctive retail outlets to chain stores and wondered, āis there a free-market solution?ā Glazer said that London and Paris do better at historical preservation.
Another commenter responded that they should take a larger view: New York is evolving, that āwhole areas once boring are exciting now.ā
Glazer said he was right, ābut the pace is faster. We have to find a way of defending āwhat isā that is not just NIMBYism. There are better values involved.ā
Indeed, just last night, John Norquist, former Milwaukee mayor and president of the Congress for a New Urbanism, told an audience that the issue was "code," or the municipal restrictions such as zoning.
"You recognize the genius of some of these architects and confront them with a strong code," Norquist said, citing the example of a Gehry project in Berlin that was changed by local officials. For the Atlantic Yards project, however, the state would override city zoning.
Density and equity
After the session last week, I caught up with Glazer, who on 7/11/05 wrote a critical letter about Atlantic Yards, to ask about the argument that density is required for equity, to build subsidized units, for example under inclusionary zoning in Greenpoint-Williamsburg or in the Atlantic Yards plan.
A similar tradeoff, he said, has existed in the past, when developers of office buildings were granted more developable area if the included plazas and other publicly accessible open space.
āIt seems, in other cities, theyāre able to be more forceful about the matter,ā he said. Increased density āseems to be the main currency. There has to be some other currency.ā
In the book, he writes that New York once was able to create parks from public funds, but after the zoning overhaul in 1961, developers were given zoning bonuses to create plazas:
But for various reasons the relative power and affluence of public and private players in the city seems to have so changed by 1961 that the best the city could do was to offer āincentivesā to the private developer to provide some space for public use. This was the mechanism devised to moderate the incredible density that is the hallmark of New York City.
He quotes author Jerrold S. Kayden:
Although the policy has yielded an impressive quantity of public space, it has failed to produce a similarly impressive quality of public space.
Now, though Glazer didnāt mention it, the challenge has advanced to a new level: parks like Brooklyn Bridge Park depend on a measure of commercial development.
Other currency?
In his book, Glazer writes about four movements shaping the city over the past 30 years: preservation, new urbanism, environmentalism, and community advocacy, which he shorthands as resistance to change.
Glazer was all about questions, not answers, but one emerging answer regarding Atlantic Yards seems to be balanced growth, both in the city and the region. Ron Shiffman, at the press conference announcing the lawsuit challenging the Atlantic Yards environmental review, said, āWe do need to rethink density,ā an acknowledgement that sometimes developments are too big and sometimes too small.
Urbanist Roberta Brandes Gratz has taken aim at the suburban-style development that grew up in once-abandoned districts like East New York that have the infrastructure to support much more density.
Also, the ātransit-oriented developmentā that has been practiced in New Jersey, where density is proposed near suburban rail stations, has come much more slowly to Long Island, which is much closer to Brooklyn. And, of course, one of the great failures of Robert Moses was his refusal to plan for a rail trackāor one to come laterāas the Long Island Expressway was developed.
While City Council Member Letitia James loves Brownstone Brooklynāopposing a āvertical cityā at the Atlantic Yards siteāshe helped develop and support the UNITY plan for the Vanderbilt Yard, with mid-range density. (UNITY 2007 this Saturday.)
And Atlantic Yards opponents who supported the alternative bid by Extell found themselves backing a plan of very high density, albeit over a smaller area, and without an arena, thus creating lesser environmental impacts (and, as the Empire State Development Corporation argues, fewer benefits).
One issue is public taste. Glazer in his book points out that, 40 years ago, there were no architecture guidebooks to American cities:
Admittedly it is easier to educate public taste to the virtues of the pastāthe buildings, after all, are already there, and the appreciations have already been writtenāthan to educate it to make decisions for the future.
The issue seems to be planning. The city got it right, it seems, with the Brig site project announced this week. It knows the right way to develop railyards, as stated in PlaNYC 2030.
The reason Atlantic Yards has become such a poster child for overdevelopment is that, by the cityās own actions, itās clear that the project did not derive from a deliberative process. Before PlaNYC 2030 was issued, the NY Metro Chapter of the American Planning Association advised that "the credibility of the process and the plans depend on broad, open public involvement and accountability."
Moreover, the planners advised, the urgency of the goals should not be "used as an excuse to circumvent open decision-making by elected officials or local legislative bodies, or appropriate application of the City's Charter-mandated public review processes such as the Uniform Land Use Review Procedure."
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